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Voegelin and Science, Seminars and Students
Did you get a sense of what science meant for him?
ROOS: I remember two things. One was that his conception of theory was different from what might be called the hypothetical-deductive mode. That is when one simply posits possible axioms, deduces consequences, then compares them to reality and has to refer back to the reality of concepts. Even as an undergraduate, I knew that, by theory, he meant something much like science in Aristotle's science: speculative reason. That is, true deductions from true premises: one had to get the premises, and the premises had to be in touch with being before one could proceed. There would be all kinds of serendipity and coming and going and adjusting and revision, but from the get-go, it was not a question of beginning with simply hypothetical or constructivist principles. So, I certainly had a very vague sense — and I hadn't read a lot of analytic philosophy then — that he was closer to something like what might be called a metaphysical or ontological realist than a constructivist.
The second was that he believed that this proceeded in political theory, not by an analysis of sense experience, but by a critical clarification of the relationship of symbolization and the relationship back to being. Now, this was deep water for us. But the great mystery was: how can it be that he at the same time pretty clearly thinks of what he's doing as not simply poetic, simply existential, simply personalistic, but that it has this element of reality? He has also introduced us to the importance of history and changes of consciousness. Of course, the question everyone else always came to was: why doesn't this result in radical historicism and relativism? But in the classroom, it was really clear that he didn't think the historical move ended up in relativity. As little nineteen-year-olds, we couldn't quite dot all the i's, but that is the sense we got.
Somebody said about Voegelin's idea of science that it would seem to be dogmatism or arrogance. Surely that must have occurred to you with your experience with the test?
ROOS: At the time, of course, that occurred to me. What also occurred to me was that I was being a smart-ass! I knew what I was writing at the top of it and thought he was giving me my just dessert in a curious way! There weren't many conflicts because we thought that it was good to read these books; that was why we were at the university. But sometimes it seemed that he envisioned himself as fending off the chaos. He was going to get on with business, there were things to learn, they could be known, and arguing for the sake of arguing — what Socrates called the eristic person — he just wasn't going to put up with it! The sense of the classroom as fragile, I think, is one way that I would probably construe part of his demeanor in the classroom.
At that time, we had every excuse to dismiss him as churlish, but we at least knew enough to pose what we thought was an interesting question and not a frivolous one, and we had actually done some work on some of these materials. And he would perhaps sometimes not listen. But rather than feel outraged, many of us simply had a sense that he was mistaken in his judgments of our capacity for civilized discourse. Yet, we also had a sense that it was not because of any personal desire for domination, but a sense of his role as needing to preserve an atmosphere of inquiry.
How did he run his seminar?
GUEGUEN: The graduate seminar? Well, there was the commanding presence of Voegelin, who had everything planned out, and we were all flying along behind to the best of our abilities. I don't recall people having to prepare seminar papers. I think it was really a lecture, a sit-down lecture. It was in a room on the third floor of O'Shaughnessy Hall around a table, and he was continuing to do what he did in the auditorium, but at a slightly different level.
So, the normal distinction that we make between a lecture and a seminar made no difference to him?
GUEGUEN: No, the difference was simply cosmetic, a different setting. He always did what he knew how to do and hoped that we would pick up some of the scraps falling from the master's table! I think that analogy is good. And the students could see that too.
How did Voegelin get along with students?
KENNEDY: I'm taking so long to answer you because I'm trying to find a positive side. What I have recollection of is fairly negative in the sense that . . . . Now, I cannot recall who of the colleagues made this complaint, but someone in the department said that you could never get Eric to direct a dissertation.
FLANAGAN: Once there was an evening with Eric Voegelin that was organized for students in the class. Maybe some other people came, too, but it was mainly for students in the class, and they had a chance to have a cup of coffee with him and to ask him a few questions. I asked him about his mastery of foreign languages, which had always amazed me — that he was able to read material in so many different languages. And I was saying what an advantage in scholarship that gave him, and his response was, "Well, I wasn't born knowing all those languages." So, the message was that, if you want to be a scholar, you have to be willing to invest the time.
But in retrospect, I would say that Gerhart Niemeyer was a much better teacher for North American students than Voegelin. Niemeyer was a remarkable teacher. He didn't teach in the German grand manner: he used a reading list, and everybody was expected to keep up with the reading. And he worked with a kind of Socratic method of questions and answers. He was constantly asking people questions and getting them to explore. And he orchestrated all this so that we would also come together. I can remember all the books I read in Niemeyer's class.
In contrast, I can't remember anything specific that Voegelin said, although he was there for an entire term. I was mesmerized by him at the time because he was a good speaker and because what he had to say was tremendously erudite and interesting. But it is striking that I actually don't remember anything. So, is it the teacher's responsibility to be erudite and impressive or is it actually to stir something in the minds of students? I think Niemeyer, on that point, was a better teacher.
But Voegelin was a phenomenon. He wasn't really a teacher, he was a phenomenon, and he was treated that way. Various people in the department would encourage their students to take Voegelin's classes as a peak experience of your time at Notre Dame. So, Goerner and Parry and Niemeyer and various others were encouraging their students. All of us who were seriously interested in political philosophy took his course. And in a sense, it was an experience. I just don't remember what it was all about now!
ALFONS BEITZINGER: He had a kind of pugnacity about him that could be very antagonizing. I remember at one lecture he was very sharp to a student, and I didn't think it was warranted. The student had had a legitimate point he wanted to make. But you know, he came from a Germanic tradition, although he did study at Wisconsin.
Was Voegelin a popular teacher?
BEITZINGER: Well, let's put it this way: he had his enemies. That word may be too strong: there were people who opposed him. And some of them were enemies you ought to have, but others were serious people who . . . Well, you could tell that his emotions sometimes would come out very strongly and that that would irritate people.
MORAN: I have another weird memory. We had a conference here for him, on him. And he got up at the end of it and lambasted everybody for misreading his works. While he was talking, he would march back and forth on the stage smoking his cigar. It was really a magisterial performance. 
This is the first of three parts. Part 2 may be read HERE.
Contributors
(Information given is as of publication of Voegelin Recollected in 2008)
james babin (interviewed May 6, 1996, in Baton Rouge) first met Voegelin in 1965 as a graduate student of John Hallowell at Duke University. A professor of English recently retired from Louisiana State University, Babin lives in Baton Rouge.
alfons beitzinger (interviewed April 21,1997, at Notre Dame) knew Voegelin while teaching in the government department at the University of Notre Dame. A professor and scholar of American government, Beitzinger is now retired and lives in Granger, Indiana.
frederick crosson (interviewed April 21,1997, at Notre Dame) knew Voegelin at the University of Notre Dame, first as director of the Program of Liberal Studies, and later as dean of the College of Arts and Letters. A former editor of the Review of Politics, Crosson enjoyed a long teaching and research career in Notre Dame's philosophy department before retiring in 2000. He lives in South Bend, Indiana.
tom flanagan (interviewed February 15, 2006, in Calgary) attended Voegelin's courses as an undergraduate at the University of Notre Dame. The author of several books on Canadian politics, Flanagan is now a professor of political science at the University of Calgary, Alberta.
john gueguen (interviewed April 23, 1997, in Urbana, Illinois) was Voegelin's teaching assistant at the University of Notre Dame in the spring of 1963. A former professor of political science at Illinois State University in Normal, he introduced many students to Voegelin's works there. He is now retired and lives in Kirkwood, Missouri, where he maintains a Voegelin archive.
john kennedy (interviewed April 29,1997, at Notre Dame) was head of Notre Dame's department of government in 1964, when Voegelin was at the University of Notre Dame. Kennedy is now deceased.
dennis moran (interviewed on April 21, 1997, at Notre Dame) was a graduate student in the department of English when he encountered Voegelin almost daily in Notre Dame's South Dining Hall. Now managing editor of the Review of Politics, Moran lives in South Bend, Indiana.
walter nicgorski (interviewed April 22, 1997, at Notre Dame) first met Voegelin as a junior faculty member in the department of government at the University of Notre Dame. As a teacher, scholar, and former editor-in-chief of the Review of Politics, Nicgorski has actively promoted the study of Voegelin's work. He now lives in South Bend, Indiana, where he is a professor in Notre Dame's Program of Liberal Studies and in the political science department.
john roos (interviewed April 22, 1997, at Notre Dame) studied under Voegelin as an undergraduate at the University of Notre Dame. After completing his doctorate at the University of Chicago, he returned to Notre Dame, where he teaches political theory and institutions in the department of political science.
